I've been lucid dreaming for more than a year now and it seems there's an even split between people who believe lucid dreaming occurs exclusively in the mind and people who believe we dream in some Astral realm.
I can appreciate Daniel's perspective on this, that while the astral plan is possible, and may 'feel' real, science cannot back it up. However, lucid dreaming has been proven by science.
At the same time, I would hate to repeat the folly of flat earthers of the past or cigarette smokers of the 1930's who had the wrong idea and made lack of science the excuse.
I like the phrase, "best available balance of evidence". While we do not have evidence of an astral realm or that we even go there when we dream, many of those who have a strong opinion (one way or another) tend to have fairly compelling anecdotes to support their view.
IF there are deities out there that are trying to influence us while we dream, and IF some light can be shed on man kind's fate by uncovering mysteries in other dimensions, than we as oneironauts would do well to explore this and see what we find.
This is what I plan to do and would be curious to hear other intelligent (and twaddle free) perspectives on this. :-)
I'm not sure there's anything that I'd consider a "fairy compelling anecdote" when it comes to astral projection. I wish it were otherwise, but the reality seems to be that even the most dramatic claims from the flim-flam side of things always have a far more logical explanation. To me, it just seems that they've thrown away the concept of Occam's Razor, and just conclude whatever they want to believe. Almost always you can explain these things with a combination of the following:
A statistical inevitability (considering the 8 billion people on the planet).
The mind's propensity for hallucination and pattern-seeking.
The human urge for attention-seeking and exaggeration.
A lack of understanding of some common but exotic psychological states: sleep paralysis, hypnagogia, lucid dreaming, etc.
A conclusion that is clearly the response to a deep-rooted fear.
If you can find a single anecdote that can't easily be explained by one or a combination of the above, then it would be a conversation worth having. But, having searched and searched, I've yet to find anything that comes close. And, if it were such an accessible and common state, you'd think we'd have ample evidence by now. I definitely don't think there is anything in common with thinking that things that can be easily explained within our current understanding of reality, rather than jumping to extreme conclusions have anything in common with "folly of flat earthers of the past or cigarette smokers of the 1930's who had the wrong idea and made lack of science the excuse. ". Quite the other way around if anything, humans have believed in souls since antiquity, it is only our recent thorough interrogation of reality that has managed to battle the demons of human conceit. It's not a lack of science that is the issue, it's a lack of anything beyond wishful thinking and unsubstantiated claims. After all, isn't it terribly convenient that such concepts as astral projection, etc. tend to put humanity and individuals in some special privileged position in the universe? Or that they fix one of the most universal human fears, namely death. It's that classic human arrogance bubbling up again. However, I'm going to have to ask that this is the only thread on this topic in these forums. Dreaming has for too long been thrown in with pseudoscience and I want to build a space that doesn't lend any more credence to ideas that should have been dropped centuries ago. I want this to be a forum for the astronomers of dreaming, not the astrologers. And certainly, astronomy forums do not allow astrology to creep into the debate, it would be absurd, as it simply doesn't deserve the time of day in comparison.
I'm all for personal exploration of these ideas, I do this myself. However, we have a responsibility to share information that won't send people down a dead end. All too often these debates end in mudslinging, mostly because the side making the paranormal claims just cannot offer anything beyond beliefs and speculation. Sadly, when cherished beliefs are challenged by hard questions, it tends to bring out another unpleasant primate response: aggression. This is why I feel that until the side making paranormal claims can support it with meaningful evidence that allows them to make their case based on something beyond personal belief and anecdote, it is best not to indulge in it and ignite their defense mechanisms. Such debates become circular and divisive, simply because 50% of the debate cannot be verified or questioned. And I'm more than a little bored of hearing people asking reasonable questions being called "materialists" or "closed-minded", just because they require a reasonable standard of evidence. Let's not have that here.